The 32 GB micro SDHC card would have been very exciting if it came out at $50. At $200, the vast majority of people will just ignore it. It is like a restaurant that has great food but charges $200 a person for dinner. The vast majority of people will just ignore it. If a great restaurant opens that charges $20 or less per peson for dinner, then many will be very excited.
JK98 wrote:
The 32 GB micro SDHC card would have been very exciting if it came out at $50. At $200, the vast majority of people will just ignore it.
I now pronounce you…
Marvin_Martian wrote:
JK98 wrote:
The 32 GB micro SDHC card would have been very exciting if it came out at $50. At $200, the vast majority of people will just ignore it.
I now pronounce you…
I’m thinking more like
I was disappointed in the “big” announcement especially since someone posted it here before the day. Wouldn’t have mattered though to me.
TomJensen wrote:
@sansablue11
I think that brand loyalty is obsolete. Buying by brand is good when you don’t have the time (or the knowledge) to check on an item’s specs list. Nowaday, there is the Internet for looking up anything you want about a product, from customer reviews to tech reviews to tear-down analyses.
Likewise, I think DAP (i.e. w/o integral video function) is obsolete as a concept, j
ust as the PDA was. Consumer tastes have evolved, and video is viewed in the same must-have category as audio. This is the bottom rung of today’s PMP. Next step up is wifi connectivity and web-browsing. And the step after that is apps capability, preferably 3rd-party enabled. This last is about a year or two in the future.
For these capabilities, devices will need to have a full-blown mobile OS. The most likely candidate is Android (unless you’re a Microsoft or Apple fan). If Sansa is to continue, it’ll need to continue along this line.
I don’t know about not brand loyalty gone. But for some things. Yes the internet does help a lot with choosing a product, but even with a few people saying something doesn’t work on it, doesn’t mean people won’t buy it (like Fuze with Video).
I think that players will need more then just music and audio in the future (except inexpensive ones). When I got my Fuze I figured out how to do video. Converted about 64gb on to various cards. Haven’t watched them for a while or converted them for a while (novelty wore off and I have my Netbook with only one converstion process) but I plan on more for my phone to do just text and calls (some internet, but not much). I am eyeing the Droid but waiting until my contract ends to see what I want then. And yes I will research it on the internet before buying.
I do think the SMC needs to go away for good. That extra step just annoyed me when the Pod people in my office didn’t have to do that, just put it on the ipood and there it was. :( I liked the end result but not the extra step.
If someone doesn’t want a video capable device there are other choices, which is good.
Message Edited by Dalaug234 on 03-25-2010 04:54 PM
Message Edited by TomJensen on 03-29-2010 03:49 PM
TomJensen wrote:
Hahah, the Pod people…
Re: Branding - It varies with people. Those who are used to being online would use that as their first go-to. Those who don’t would rely on other sources, branding being one.
Branding still matters when a product has intangibles that can’t be compared or aren’t easily quantified (luxury goods, Air Jordans), or when there are enough unknowns in the buying process that the name is the best assurance of a good product, e.g. buying a uSD card.
Re: SMC - To be fair, the Fuze is a 2-yr old model, and video has gotten more popular since then. It doesn’t make business sense for Sandisk to have another go with Sansa, but I’ll defer to neutron_bob on this. Companies do weird things sometimes.
Actually, there is one ‘compelling’ reason for pocket video that I haven’t seen mentioned yet, and I won’t myself, this being a family forum.
One possibility is that they’ll pick up an ODM Android MID and put some value-add on it, eg. decent sound/video chips, etc. That’ll give them fast time-to-market, and alleviate the software development burden. Wouldn’t be this calendar year, though.
Or, they may just put out a Fuze+32GB model as someone speculated. Fighting for the bottom rung.
That would be a big seller for them, I think. I’m considering a 32GB device from another brand right now…not that I am unhappy with my Clip+, but I’d have to spend $200 more to get it to 32GB, and that ain’t happening.
I would be keeping the Clip+ though.
Message Edited by TomJensen on 05-03-2010 05:54 PM
The Touch is a big beastie, to say the least. Oh, and did I mention it’s a fruit based lifeform? Good luck with that. I’ve spent some time with it, and immediately returned to the Sansa to save my sanity.
The Fuze, in operation, is a completely different experience. I can pop in a microSD card, pop it in my pocket, and operate it via tactile “real” controls. No need to fumble with a brick in my pocket. On the other hand, the wee Clip cannot be beaten for portability…and controls one needn’t stare at.
Now, if I want eye candy, perhaps an Apple, but my ears are the boss when it comes to the sound. And the Bobster has big ears, just ask my wife.
Regarding the SONY, well, I have had Sony products for many years. They just aren’t the same as in the old days.
Bob :stuck_out_tongue:
neutron_bob wrote:
Regarding the SONY, well, I have had Sony products for many years. They just aren’t the same as in the old days.
Ain’t that the truth! They used to be at the top of the heap when it came to electronics (TV, stereo equipment, etc.). I’ve got a DVD/VCR combo player now that is a bonafide POS. I bought it remembering Sony’s high quality standards of the past. Have hated it since the day I got it; been exchanged once and back in the shop twice since. Still doesn’t work like it should.
Oh, how the mighty have fallen! 
I don’t understand why people get a Fuze with video capabilities (and if one does it right, very good video capabilities) and not use video.
Don’t get me wrong, SMC is a pain, but please enlighten me.
I think we can agree that if Sansa devs are going to be packing 32GB or more, video will drive it, not audio. Questions: What’s the price point? And what’s the value proposition?
I can think of few things:
. Capability to download/convert directly from cellphones/digicams/camcorders. Videos can be generated from a multitude of sources. The weak point has been to seamlessly share them. If a Sansa can fill this need, it’s a plus.
. Onboard basic video edit capability. This goes in line with the ‘seamless share’ function. Doesn’t have to be fancy, just start/stop/splice cuts; may be some transition fades.
. Sharing: Ability to transfer files onto various social network sites, PCs, TVs, etc. For PCs & TVs, streaming would be a plus. WiFi & USB required.
. Capability to stream movies from PC.
The elephant in the room, however, is the (lack of) ability to get full-length movies legally and seamlessly onto the device. The most popular source of movies is DVDs, but DVD rippers are illegal to distribute (in the US at least).
Sandisk would have to work out deals w/ movie companies to allow ‘digital copies’ bundled w/ current DVDs to be transferable (right now they only work on PCs). Sandisk did this before with music in their SlotMusic & SlotRadio initiatives, so SlotMovies would be a logical next step.
In the role envisioned above, the Sansa dev would be a mobile repository of video content, which would include user-generated content as well as protected commercial content. Content would be playable, and editable (for the user content).
It would fulfill Sandisk’s need to play to their strength–flash production–in packing mucho flash (32/64/96GB), and allow them to premium-price it, since they have first-mover advantage.
Of course, the usual audio/picture capability should be there. So if a user wants to use it to store more of his music library, then he can.
Message Edited by TomJensen on 03-27-2010 09:39 PM
@saxmaster
You already answered your own question: Because the software is a pain. Most users will try it once or twice, and if they can’t get it to work, they will either return it to the store, or use the player as audio-only. It’s uncommon that people will seek out a support forum to find answers. The people here are in the minority.
The software is the key. In low-end products (which include the Sansas), it’s given short shrift.
saxmaster765 wrote:
I don’t understand why people get a Fuze with video capabilities (and if one does it right, very good video capabilities) and not use video.
Don’t get me wrong, SMC is a pain, but please enlighten me.
In my case, even if the SMC had not been a pain, the fact still remains that the screen is 1.9"…and that is small! I’ve had 2 players with 2.4" screens, and I didn’t watch video on them either…I tried it with them, and it worked, but it’s just a little small for my tastes. I haven’t had the chance to check out a player with a 3"+ screen, like a Touch, ZuneHD, Cowon S9, Samsung P3, Sony X-series…maybe that size I would like…I won’t know unless I have the chance. But anything under 3", not my cup of tea.
Message Edited by TomJensen on 05-03-2010 05:54 PM
TomJensen wrote:
How is the Sony E345 w/ regards to video conversion? I understand it only works with WMV and with fairly specific restrictions, like the Fuze.
How is its audiobook function? Database refresh time?
Video conversion?..I have no idea, it’s a 2" screen. In all fairness, its resolution is the same as the S545’s bigger 2.4" screen, so the display looks a little bit sharper…but I haven’t even attempted video on it…no interest in it. There is no audiobook or podcast support in the menus. I have put podcasts on there, and played them, but I had to either search through the library to find them, or use the folder browsing mode. Database refresh…Full memory reload,all 14.7GB, after a format, a minute or two. When you shut it down, it goes into standby mode for 4 hours, during which it is instant-on (S545 is the same way) . After the 4 hours, it fully shuts down, and starting it brings up a refresh that takes maybe 3-4 seconds.
I use my Clip+ for my podcasts, and I have music on it too. I use my Sony players purely for music, and lots of it…they have excellent EQ’s, and real bass boost that doesn’t muddy up the sound, and great battery life. The Clip+ gets used every day too, though.
Message Edited by TomJensen on 04-01-2010 09:58 AM
Hewlett-Packard is about to release a tablet, based upon the cool 10.1-inch panel on the machine I’m currently using, the HP Mini 210. They are adding a touch-sensitive panel to the display, and the net result is a compact device, without the keyboard of the Minis.
The 210 has an SD slot on the side, among other goodies. The 32GB SD card is a nice accessory. Based upon the photos I’ve seen, for those who don’t need a standard keyboard, the tablet willmost likely be nicer than the iPad, and it will be far more open to user applications.
PC World spoke of the new HP as “underwhelming”, while praising the iPad. Go figure. If it has the Intel Atom processor of the Mini, and even part of the hardware of its bigger brother, I’ll bet that we’ll see more of them. With cool things like the SD slot and those little USB ports. Are you listening, Mr. Jobs? No adaptors required.
SanDisk has also released several new SSD hard drive modules, drop-in devices that replace the conventional laptop hard drive.
For me, I am quite happy with the size of the keyboard (93% of the size of a normal desktop one), and the flip-up screen. A tablet has some “cool factor”, but I prefer meat and potatoes keys. Perhaps, if the goal is simply to browse the Internet, reading the news, with Flash video capability, a tablet might be fun. There’s always Hulu and YouTube, isn’t there?
Bob :smileyvery-happy:
Ballmer intro’ed the HP tablet at a recent tradeshow, and it didn’t go over well. The HP tablet is based on Win7, a desktop OS. Pros and cons are known: vast stable of Win software, but hefty hardware reqs means short battery life and relative high cost. The Intel Atom Z still can’t compare to the various ARM flavors in power/price reqs. It’s a marathon, so we’ll see if Intel can improve x86 enough to get a foothold in the mobile space.
It all depends on the apps. Given zero excitement among devs–the source of future apps–I’m skeptical. It’s because MS have been down this road before. Recall the ill-fated MS UMPC initiative, aka Origami. Before that of course there was MS’ Tablet PC. While mobile hardware has gotten better, the underpinning–Windows–is still the same bloated codebase.
The larger issue against Win7 for mobile use is that its UI is geared for desktop, and touch capability notwithstanding, most Win apps aren’t suited for finger use (as opposed to mouse/KB). It’s also not scalable to smaller form-factors.
MS’ Windows Mobile was killed because of this. Its UI used the desktop metaphor and was never popular, despite its headstart on smartphones. The iPhone killed it, and MS made that official recently with the grounds-up rewrite of its Windows Phone 7 Series. WP7S is more conducive for mobile, but it’s still announce-ware, and has the same walled-garden approach as Apple’s.
Android looks to have the most momentum right now.
PC World was never a good tech rag, but its descent into yellow journalism mirrors the precipitous decline of all traditional tech pubs, notably both the IDG and ZDNet stables. It’s understandable: sensationalized headlines encourage clicks, which is what ad rates are based on. All online pubs, including the venerable NYT and WaPo, practice this to varying degree.
News reporting is the fourth estate. It’s a little sad, but again understandable, to see it in its present predicament, having to pander to the low-brow to survive. Transitions are tough.
BTW, HP dropped the full Hewlett-Packard name a while back, and are just ‘HP’ now.
Re: Hulu & Youtube - Dropping ad revs affect the TV networks as well. Hulu will go payware. The only uncertainties are when, how, and how much. Youtube doesn’t pay to create content, so it will likely stay adware in the main, with niches of payware for licensed premium content.
The central issue in all this is the use case for the tablet, which is dependent on its capabilities. In another post, perhaps.
Edit: A mea culpa on the Hewlett-Packard -> HP naming. I recalled reading about the change, but now can’t find a reference for it. The HP site still has the Hewlett-Packard in small print.
Message Edited by TomJensen on 03-29-2010 05:22 PM
